Jimmy Kunz of The Truffleist

#42. In this episode, our listeners are in for a treat as we host a special guest on the show. Introducing Jimmy Kunz, the son of the late, great, world-renowned Chef Gray Kunz. For those deeply rooted in the culinary world, Gray's influence is immeasurable, and he has been a significant mentor to many, including our host, Josh Sharkey.

Jimmy has successfully built a remarkable business around one of the world's most coveted ingredients – truffles.

Jimmy began making truffle butter as a holiday gift for friends and family before he was inspired to take his passion to the next level by officially becoming The Truffleist. Like a modern-day version of the street cart vendors who walked a young New York City, Jimmy started hand-delivering the product to his early customers, personally navigating the City streets by Vespa. Since launching the company with that flagship truffle butter in 2013, The Truffleist now offers a growing selection of distinct truffle products and hosts a wildly successful seasonal market: Cheesesteaks by The Truffleist. The Truffleist products are available at pop-up markets, specialty shops, online, and up and down the East Coast on the shelves of Whole Foods. They are also honored to be featured in the dishes of some of New York’s most visionary and
celebrated chefs.

This season, the podcast delves into a theme close to the host's heart – the impact chefs and hospitality professionals have on their children. As a father of two, our host is intrigued by the dynamics of children entering the hospitality world. Jimmy shares his unique perspective of growing up with a culinary legend as a father.

In this episode, listeners will explore the intricacies of Jimmy's business, The Truffleist, and delve into his innovative cheesesteak concept. The conversation is sprinkled with anecdotes about Chef Kunz, including a surprise from Lespinasse that promises to captivate – watch the video to discover the details!

Where to find Jimmy Kunz: 

• Instagram
• LinkedIn

Where to find The Truffleist:

• Website
• Instagram
• LinkedIn
• Facebook

Where to find host Josh Sharkey:

• Instagram
• LinkedIn

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In this episode, we cover:

(03:29) What it was like growing up with Chef Gray Kunz as Jimmy's dad
(07:39) Chef Kunz's high standard of cleanliness and how it translated to his home
(14:23) How The Truffleist Started
(22:58) Other Truffleist products and the importance of sourcing high quality ingredients
(26:13) Sourcing mushrooms for a CPG company
(28:41) The controversy behind truffle oil
(33:35) Holiday markets and truffle cheesesteaks
(41:28) The Truffleist in airports
(44:41) How Chef Kunz's idea of excellence has shaped Jimmy's idea of excellence in his company
(46:18) Digitizing Lespinasse Menu Repertoire Volume 1 and 2

Transcript

[00:00:00] Josh Sharkey: 

You're listening to season two of The meez Podcast. I'm your host, Josh Sharkey, the founder and CEO of meez, a culinary operating system for food professionals. On the show, we're going to talk to high performers in the food business, everything from chefs to CEOs, technologists, writers, investors, and more about how they innovate and operate and how they consistently execute at a high level.

[00:00:23] 

Day after day. And I would really love it if you could drop us a five star review. Anywhere that you listen to your podcast. That could be Apple, that could be Spotify, could be Google. I'm not picky. Anywhere works, but I really appreciate the support. And as always, I hope you enjoy the show.

[00:00:42] Josh Sharkey: 

All right, my guest today is a special one. Jimmy Kunz. He's the son of the late, great, world renowned chef Gray Kunz. And Gray has meant so much to so many of us in the culinary world, and for me, has been one of my greatest mentors ever. And Jimmy and I have gotten to know each other a lot over the years, and he's one of the sweetest people that you'll ever meet.

[00:01:04] 

And on top of that, he's built a really incredible business revolving around one of the most expensive ingredients in the world, truffles. It's been really incredible to see Jimmy grow as a human and as an entrepreneur, as a person over the years, and it is not easy following in the footsteps of someone like Chef Kunz.

[00:01:23] 

And Jimmy has found a way to both honor his dad and also find his own path along the way with his business, Truffleist. It reminds me a lot of the conversation I had last season with chef Marc Forgione as he was talking about his relationship with his dad, Larry, uh, another incredible chef and the challenges that come along with, you know, stepping into the shoes of someone like that.

[00:01:44] 

So a theme that I'm digging into more this season in the podcast is, well, the impact, you know, that we have as chefs, as restaurant professionals, uh, on our children. I have two kids and how we think about the idea of our children going into the hospitality world. Obviously there's a lot of great things about it and there's some challenges about it as well.

[00:02:04] 

And it was really interesting to hear Jimmy's perspective of growing up with a father who was such an incredible chef, but of course was also working a lot, and how they found quality time and the ways that they navigated that. So, we of course talk about all things in Jimmy's business, the Truffleist, and he also has this really cool cheesesteak concept.

[00:02:25] 

We talk a lot about his dad. It's a really cool surprise that he brought me from Lespinasse that we'll talk about, and if you watch the video, you'll see what it is. Really cool, and generally it was just great to catch up with him. So, as always, I hope you enjoy the episode, and the time, as much as I did.

[00:02:49] Josh Sharkey: 

Jimmy Kunz, welcome to the show. 

[00:02:54] Jimmy Kunz: 

Josh Sharkey, it's uh, honor to be here, and great to catch up with you.

[00:02:59] Josh Sharkey: 

The pleasure's mine. I don't remember, when's the last time we saw each other? 

[00:03:01] Jimmy Kunz: 

Too long ago, probably, uh, celebration of life. For dad.

[00:03:06] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah. Well, for those that don't know, I mean, your last name gives it away, but your dad was one of the most incredible chefs ever to live, Chef Gray Kunz.

[00:03:16] 

And I wanted to start off, we're going to get into your background, I'll share it as well with people, but I don't think I ever asked you this before, but what was it like growing up with a dad like Chef Gray Kunz? 

[00:03:29] Jimmy Kunz: 

Well, pretty incredible because I love to eat, obviously, work focused mentality. The jokes on mom because she doesn't like to cook and married a chef. But as everyone knows in the industry, it's time consuming, but overall amazing because I got to cook with them at home. So. We had a great relationship as we progressed, but it was definitely challenging at times, and then also incredible because he wasn't around much. And then we definitely valued the time we had together when we did have the time together.

[00:04:06] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, I mean, how often did you guys cook together? 

[00:04:10] Jimmy Kunz: 

Um, mainly upstate house, you know, they had a house in the Clinton corners. So that was really nice. I think it was mainly later in life. When his schedule freed up a little bit. 

[00:04:22] Josh Sharkey: 

So like post Lespinasse.

[00:04:23] Jimmy Kunz: 

Post Lespinasse. Yeah, basically in that house upstate, which he designed that kitchen, which was just sick and beautiful with drawer refrigeration and going to farmer's markets together. And then him schooling me on bolognese. And I always remember his fascination for, you know, making his own curries or tomato sauce. So we would go to the farm and get the seconds and it was just like these big missions of packaging stuff up, which looking back at what I'm doing now and that whole thing of.

[00:05:01] 

Having the preserved stuff is super cool. So we, we had some really nice moments and we never really went out. When we were upstate, we just cooked at home, whether it was custom grill on open flame and getting a bunch of lobsters, or we really kept it simple together. And I think some of his favorite dishes was just having a steak or spaghetti bolognese.

[00:05:28] 

Spaghetti bolognese was usually a Sunday night type of thing. So it wasn't like this download of, you know, let's make sauce and let's do a seafood sausage and kind of do these crazy intricate, elevated things. It was really home cooking, and it was incredible. 

[00:05:50] Josh Sharkey: 

I wouldn't have thought of bolognese with Chef Kunz. You know, of all the things, I mean, even though, you know, I'm sure at home you cook really simple. I would, you know, of all the things, I would not have. Thought that, did he ever take you like mushroom foraging? I know that was a big thing. 

[00:06:05] Jimmy Kunz: We did do mushroom hunting together. Personally, not my favorite thing to do.

[00:06:10]: Josh Sharkey: 

Really? Why?

[00:06:10] Jimmy Kunz: 

Don't tell anybody cause I sell truffles for a living. But, uh, I think that was also kind of his Zen moment where he just loved to forage for mushrooms and maybe the timing didn't line up for me. I was more excited about when he returned and. Um, making a cool, I don't know, morel and cream sauce or, or stuff like that.

[00:06:36] 

But, uh, we were blessed to go to a great camp and they always had an open house. So pops would disappear for the day, which was, I loved cause I saw that he was just so happy to be on this beautiful property. Andes New York with the lake. Oh yeah. And he would just go fishing and mushroom hunting all day.

[00:06:58] 

It's like the first one there and the last one to leave and. You would just have a blast there. But yeah, the mushroom hunting was definitely one of his passions, whether it was in upstate New York or traveling to Switzerland, I think his favorites, probably porcini, chanterelles and morels to my knowledge, But, uh,

[00:07:17] Josh Sharkey: Do you find porcinis up there?

[00:07:20] Jimmy Kunz:

I think so. Yeah.

[00:07:19] Josh Sharkey: 

Obviously there's a, there's some great parts about having a chef for a dad. I want to talk a little bit also about the notion of like when you have kids, your thoughts of them going into the industry. What were some of the, you said there was challenging parts, what are some of the tough parts of like having a chef or a mom or a, obviously it can be a mom or dad.

[00:07:39] Jimmy Kunz: 

Well I'm sure you can relate to this. with his cleanliness or standard of cleaning. 

[00:07:48] Josh Sharkey: 

That's funny. Of all the things, that would not be the first thing I'd think of, but that's, yeah, I mean, we used to use a Zamboni to clean the kitchen. 

[00:07:55] Jimmy Kunz: 

So, those kind of things where Obviously, you worked for him, with him, and cleaning was a religious experience in the Gray Kunz kitchens, whether it was Lespinasse or Cafe Gray.

[00:08:12] 

So implementing that same style as a young lad, or with Julie, my sister, shout out to Julie, that kind of meticulous cleaning, maybe that wasn't at the level of what he was used to at work. So I think there was things where. You could just see that switch when he was in the kitchen, it was tough to switch to the home kind of mindset, right?

[00:08:42] 

And I had a fun way of dealing with that, you know, at a certain age, you're like, well, you understand that. You can't switch off. I get it. This is your work environment. Sure. We happen to be at home. So along with uncle Stephen, who helped me out with Truffleist, who's not only my uncle, not by blood, my dad's best friend, one of my best friends, always been a father figure.

[00:09:07] Jimmy Kunz: 

So. Stephen, Dad, and I would always have fun in the kitchen, Dad being very serious, but also fun, and Stephen and I would tell him no, which is something that he wouldn't hear in other kitchens. And we would poke at him, but I think going back, circling back to your question, it's time, right? Like, you want to have time with the family, and I think the demand of the industry and the timing, and we got to a point where, sure, growing up, you're always gonna butt heads with your parents, or you're gonna do things that annoy them.

[00:09:43] 

But as we grew, we just really had this solid connection and mutual respect and understanding that we might not always have the time, but we will make time. And when we have that time, it doesn't matter what time it is, if that makes sense. It doesn't need to be a holiday. It could be a weird Tuesday. So we kind of grew in this where.

[00:10:07] 

We both get it kind of moment. Yeah. Um, and I guess it's that same like driven mentality of I want to treat every day like it's a vacation, right? But or just make the most out of every day. But very, it's very driven with work as kind of work focused mentality. So we got to this mutual. Respect of that and understanding and then I think a lot of things click personally because then we would just be really jiving, but it was fun to poke him in the kitchen upstate Stephen and I know well, we want to do it this way.

[00:10:47] 

You're over cooking the turkey, for example, and Mr Falango has a good story of his thermo pen and the story where the turkey got away and,

[00:10:58] Josh Sharkey:

You know, it's funny, you see, time, and I, I think about, I have two kids now, and, I'm not running kitchens anymore. I'm running a, you know, a tech business, but I'm still, you know, the same person I was 20 years ago working, you know, pretty crazy hours.

[00:11:16]

And, you know, I think about time as a parent in terms of quality versus quantity, and this balance of like, you know, there has to be people doing great things in this world. And that means that they're going to need to take time to do that. And balancing time Doing great things and also time of like taking care of your family.

[00:11:36] 

I feel the quality of the time you have with them. is far more important than the quantity because you can never, it's hard to control how much quantity you have. I have to imagine it was less quantity of time than you would have liked. 

[00:11:49] Jimmy Kunz: 

I mean, mom did a great job to fill in the blanks. Um, I was always psyched to obviously go and have his food and, and have the luxury of going to eat at his restaurants and, and going to have that dining experience and seeing him.

[00:12:05] 

Obviously, with the waves of the hospitality industry and his kind of roller coaster ride in his career, there was definitely pockets when he was just doing the cookbook and we had lots of time together and then his transition to Asia, too, was just great. So I think he also recognized as he was getting older that, you know, it's not sustainable to be.

[00:12:29] 

In the kitchen seven days a week and kudos to him and I mean, the amount of pressure to continue to reinvent yourself and I think he would just always with the mindset of anything for the family. So it took me a little second to realize that I think it was because of a genius, an artist, perfectionist, those are all things and then.

[00:12:54] 

Me kind of being in the food space in a different sector, understanding that you got to grind, you got to put it in, you got to shoot for perfection and then kind of the sweet spot of the mutual understanding and respect of each other that kind of that clicked a little bit later and then we were just in a sweet spot for the

[00:13:18] 

Last, I would say, 12, 15 years of his life, we just had this mutual respect, understanding on a different level than before. And we were just jiving, and when we had those moments to cook together, it was definitely special. 

[00:13:33] Josh Sharkey: 

I want to dig into, like, the impact that he being who he was as Gray, and also just it the idea of a chef like that as, as a parent, how that affected and impacted your work, your life, your, who you are.

[00:13:48] 

But before we do that, let's just diverge for a minute because I want to dig into truffles. I want to learn more about it and then we'll, we'll kind of go back and we'll, we'll, we'll weave a bit. But tell me about Truffleist. I want to, obviously, you know. The name says a lot, but, you know, why did you start it and what's the company and, you know, just give us the download, man.

[00:14:08] 

Sure. And also this stuff's pretty awesome.

[00:14:11] Jimmy Kunz: 

Sure Well, he brought you some truffle fondue. Fondue, truffle salami. The Switzerland and truffle salami. 

[00:14:19] Josh Sharkey: 

Nice, man. Yeah. So, so why'd you start it? What about the company, man? 

[00:14:23] Jimmy Kunz: 

Sure. Totally. This is awesome. Thank you for this, by the way. You're very welcome. We just celebrated 10 years, so we started in 2013.

[00:14:31] 

It started with Stephen Falango and myself. We were at Stephen's apartment in, uh, Carroll Gardens, and we made truffle butter. Our flagship truffle butter. Luckily, through a connection of Dad, his old truffle supplier, we bought a pound of Perigord truffles just for fun. I connected with her because at the time, I was selling salami for a small salami company.

[00:14:59] Jimmy Kunz: 

I did that for two years, which was Saline Saline. Let's give Saline a shout out. We're still in touch and good friends. We don't buy that many truffles from her anymore. But so we were figuring out a truffle salt with my old boss. Great salami company called Charlito's Cocina. We definitely have to give him a shout out.

[00:15:21] 

So Charlito's Cocina, great small brand, high end salami charcuterie company, helped him with sales, but you know as you're dealing with co manufacturers, especially with meat and certain things, we were trying to figure out how to do a truffle salt. So of course, my nature, yeah, dad's got a truffle guy.

[00:15:40] 

Let's figure out if we can make the truffle salt for the truffle salami. And then, of course, always in touch with Stephen. He was like, Jimmy, well, you're trying to make a truffle salt with Charlito here. Let's buy a pound of truffles and have some pasta and, like, make truffle butter and have a good time, so.

[00:15:57] 

It all started around just trying to have a good dinner and, um, what we did was we made this amazing, what we call our flagship truffle butter, which is just one pound of Perigord truffles, either from France or Spain these days, and five pounds of butter, a little bit of salt, just mixed together, so we just grind up the truffles, we make this amazing truffle butter.

[00:16:25] 

And then we packaged it in a fancy jar, and Steve was like, why don't you give this a shot? Why don't you go out and sell it? And at that point, we were at a cool time, well, New York is always cool, but we were at a cool time for packaged good in New York City. There seemed to be just this Everybody and their mom was making either a ramp vinaigrette or Pickles or like a crazy condiment sauce and you saw that at Smorgasburg.

[00:16:56] 

They don't even have this package tent there was So anyway, I got on my scooter. I remember a little cool canvas Hipster cooler bag that I had, and I was on my moped going door to door, and it's an expensive, expensive jar of truffle butter. No added flavoring, no added truffle oil, just very pure, and we still stick to the same recipe today.

[00:17:20] 

We only make 500 jars of it. It's not available for distribution. What do you sell it to? We, the flagship truffle butter is literally just for our holiday markets now. We sold out pretty quickly this year. We gave it out as gifts. That first batch that we made, we use a great quality butter from Kriemhild Dairy.

[00:17:40] 

It's super high butter fat content, like 86 and above. And that recipe hasn't changed, but it's. It's interesting. That was the birth of the Truffleist brand. And then we kind of realized that a lot of people haven't had the luxury of having freshly shaved truffles or even the opportunity to purchase them and that we had to expand the line to things that were a little bit more approachable or recognizable or what.

[00:18:11] 

General palette is looking for in terms of a packaged truffle product perishables high cost, you know, um

[00:18:19] Josh Sharkey: 

like the honeys and oils and things like that. Correct? 

[00:18:22] Jimmy Kunz: 

It's all thanks to Stephen. We had a 10 year anniversary holiday staff party and 10 year anniversary party and Stephen believed in me. And, uh, helped me out with the initial investment, which was very small, no business plan, paid him back in 18 months.

[00:18:41] 

And we've kind of have grown for there, but there was, we'll circle back to dad right now because there was something that I wanted to bring up, which I think you'll get a kick out of. So we're developing. You know, kind of logos and stuff, very small scale. And we're doing another batch truffle butter and talking to dad about it.

[00:19:05] 

And he's giving his insight, which not wrong on his approach, but he was like, we should cook it in the Port Madeira. And he always did this preserve truffle thing. And then that juice, you can use it for other things. If you want to drain it. But also with moisture levels. Anyway, I don't want to get into the science aspect.

[00:19:25] Josh Sharkey: 

That Jus is the, is incredible.

[00:19:27] Jimmy Kunz: 

Is the Mecca. My vision for the flagship would just be super simple, pure, just truffles, butter, and sea salt. In hindsight. Looking back, because there was this moment, I remember it very well, Josh. Um, he was like, hey man, like, you should cook the truffles in this cool recipe that I have.

[00:19:49] 

And like, can I help you out with this thing that you're doing? And Of course, looking back, I would say, I have no regrets with the decision I made, but as you grow, you realize he was like, can I be involved in and help you out with Truffleist essentially? And I was like, no, I think I think it hurt him a bit, but I knew I wanted to kind of my own road.

[00:20:15] 

And we're looking back, man should have said yes. I might have stuck to my guns about the recipe just as like to just butt heads a bit for fun But uh, you know celebrity chef endorsement on the flagship product could have helped out a lot But I think that was an important Yeah in the very early stages of like I got to do this on my own.

[00:20:40] 

I don't want to use your name, and I want to try to build this thing for myself, but looking back, I should have said yes, because it would have been, it would have been fun to do it with him, and of course, his name would help, but that was not the point, and he took it very well, we were just like, very honest, and, you know, Stephen, it was just, There was just an interesting moment there.

[00:21:02] Josh Sharkey: 

I mean, it's understandable, though, you know, you gotta be walking the footsteps of somebody, you know, that created this incredible legacy, and it's funny, Marc Forgione was, uh, was on the show last year, and he, he said something, like, really, I'd never thought about before, he said, people really. I don't quite understand the challenge of having a father or any parent that has created this legacy because there's this notion that you're just sort of milking off of whatever they've created and it's like, no, I, I'm my own person.

[00:21:34] 

I'm going to do my own thing and independent of something that they've created, I can, I'm also, you know, going to create something incredible. That's a big challenge, because you always have to, you know, you have to sort of step out of the light so that you can, you know, find your own path. I'm sure that was a really hard decision, but I also, knowing Chef Gray, I'm sure he understood.

[00:21:52] Jimmy Kunz: 

Yeah, that was a funny moment. 

[00:21:55] Josh Sharkey: 

So, you started with the butter, and, first of all, like, the selling Preserve truffles in the Port Madeira would be pretty dope, except how much would that fucking cost? Because you gotta use good pork, good Madeira, and it's just literally a truffle Port Madeira. That's not gonna be cheap, and then who's gonna, you know, who's gonna, you also have to know how to use it.

[00:22:17] 

It's a tough one. It is a tough one. Delicious. We still have some jars in mom's fridge that actually Stephen just used up. They're still really good. Preserved truffle is nice. A lot of companies are doing like carpaccio. We have like a truffle sauce, which is kind of a mushroom tapenade with some summer truffle.

[00:22:36] 

Very different, but. That recipe and it's pretty cool with the Port Madeira and you can do some really nice sauces You gotta have the Black Winters for that product. You know, it would we would encounter I think a similar hurdle With the flagship truffle butter, where it's kind of outpriced, um, for kind of the masses, but

[00:22:58] Josh Sharkey: 

Maybe talk a little bit about some of the other products that you have, and I'm also curious, like the sourcing, you mentioned a couple places that you get them from, like how you're sourcing these truffles.

[00:23:07] Jimmy Kunz: 

Yeah, sure. So we grew from the flagship to our second item was. Kind of a summer truffle butter, so we pivoted to that as our second SKU. Third one, which we discontinued, was truffle cream cheese, but might be coming back. That had a short little, that was fun to be at Smorgasburg every weekend. We got to test some SKUs out, and then we went honey.

[00:23:33] Jimmy Kunz: 

Salt, mustard, oil, and then the line progress, but we've always been very proud to be based in New York City as a New Yorker growing up here and being exposed to great food and. The melting pot of this amazing city took a lot of pride of staying here and growing here. It's why a big part of our DNA is these holiday markets and being in small specialty shops.

[00:24:02] 

But with that being said, I think what makes us different, the common question. Is how we source our base ingredient. I mean, I'm like a mustard guy, right? Or hot sauce guy, both. I don't just have two mustards in the fridge, right? It's a Swiss mustard. It's a French mustard. It's the Polish one that's easy and Greenpoint to get.

[00:24:23] 

So I'm always like kind of an been a condiment fan. So just like how I treat cooking at home. You gotta get the best stuff, and I try to do very little, so the base ingredient is really what we focus on. So for example, Kriemhild Dairy, Great Farm Upstate, that's where we get our butter. Tremblay Apiaries, they sell on the weekends at the Union Square Farmers Market, we get the honey from them.

[00:24:52] 

So wherever we can. celery from France. We try to just get an amazing high quality base ingredient. And then of course the truffles we get are excellent as well. 

[00:25:05] Josh Sharkey: 

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[00:25:16] 

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[00:25:51] Josh Sharkey: 

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[00:26:13] Josh Sharkey: 

I'm so curious how you source truffles at scale like this because you know in the restaurants you got Celine or someone like that truffle guy coming in and there's a box and it feels a little bit like black market. Um, like what is it, what is it like sourcing them for, you know, for some sort of scale with like a CPG company?

[00:26:30] 

Yeah, it took some figuring out for sure and Celine being an amazing supplier and partner in the beginning and, you know, she's catering to The Thomas Kellers, the high end or anyone who's using fresh truffles. And then, of course, as you scale, you want to avoid the middleman, right? And go directly to the source.

[00:26:55] 

So we've actually figured out a couple ways, right? We partner with someone like Celine, and they're overstock, and she gives us a call and says, Hey. You know what? I overordered by 10 and one chef canceled on me, so I have 15 extra. I'm vacuum sealing it. I'm going to put it in the freezer and truffles freeze really well.

[00:27:19]

And then also based on our production, depending on the item, we do need to process, clean, cook, pasteurize, dehydrate, depending on what it is. So, for us, We don't need that perfect first class truffle for table side shaving, depending on what it is, we can use pieces or we can use some that are smaller. So we're known as the freezer clears with the guys selling fresh truffles.

[00:27:47] 

So as the season changes, they've accumulated and frozen their overstock on a weekly basis. And then at the end of it, it's like, Oh, Jimmy, I got. 80 pounds of summer truffle. And they're just trying to cut their losses on that. So they'll give us a deal on it, right? Hopefully, and we clear out their freezers so they can start fresh with the next.

[00:28:11] Josh Sharkey: 

That's so smart, man. That's so smart. 

[00:28:13] Jimmy Kunz: 

So that has worked out really well with some strategic partners who we have a very good relationship with. But it takes a while and that timing needs to be right, right? They're very smart about how they purchase because it's so expensive. And then we do go direct to Europe and import on our own.

[00:28:30] 

Let's say we need. A hundred pounds in a shot for a run. We can't wait for that, but we have a few few importers that we deal with and then go direct to Europe.

[00:28:41] Josh Sharkey: 

So all right I was a little nervous about asking this question because I'm not sure, but I want to talk about truffle oil because it has a stigma and there's a lot of.

[00:28:50] 

bad truffle oil out there. It can be good. A lot of people get truffle oil and it's not what they, you know, hope it's going to be. It's not obviously the case here. So what is typical truffle oil that people see and then what is it that you're making and, and your thoughts on the whole truffle oil like business?

[00:29:08] Jimmy Kunz: 

I'm glad you're asking this question. I think it's an important one to ask and to answer. There are fresh truffles and then there are truffle products. There's a huge difference between the two. We happen to make a very high quality truffle oil that is with extra virgin olive oil from Italy. So there's a good start right there with some really nice olive oil.

[00:29:33] 

We use organic flavoring, which is approved by Whole Foods. We also have a slice of truffle in there. So I think there's very different ways of making it. I think there's very different Levels, quality of the flavoring that's in, and this goes across the board, not just to truffle oil, right? Truffle flavoring is a huge conversation that we hear at these holiday markets or get emails about.

[00:30:04] 

And I guess to make it a little bit more black and white, there's fresh truffles and there's truffle products. And truffle products all have a truffle flavoring it. 

[00:30:19] Josh Sharkey: 

What, what is truffle flavor? 

[00:30:20] Jimmy Kunz: 

It depends on which kind of truffle product you're, or which company you're using. But it could be organic, naturally derived, that's approved like Whole Foods that we're using.

[00:30:34]

Or it could be. Something that's made by a flavoring house that might be mid tiered. There's a wide range of, spectrum of quality, flavor profile, sums that get mixed with other mushroom notes. 

[00:30:52] Josh Sharkey: 

Are there things other than mushrooms that they use to make these flavorings?

[00:30:55] Jimmy Kunz: 

I don't know. I don't know. It is definitely a conversation that turns people off sometimes when they hear it's like, Oh, is it like vanilla extract?

[00:31:05] 

Or is it, you know, cause you have different quality levels within that. At the day, obviously safe to eat, but there's also different quality levels within it. That are, some are not naturally derived, some are, and there is a lot of 

[00:31:22] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, there's a lot of, there's definitely a lot of in between, and you can tell the difference, like, for sure.

[00:31:27] 

And there are some that, yeah, that work really well, and are good, and there's some that you're like, First of all, when you see something that's like, you know, 2 for a bottle of olive oil, you're like, Hmm, ah, there's something going on there, because first of all, just good olive oil, or any oil, costs money, right?

[00:31:41] 

And then Any amount of truffle costs money, so there's gonna be some sort of cost to that. I was always curious, by the way, oil is such an incredible medium. Fat is just such an incredible medium to, like, carry flavor, right? Like, remember when we were making, like, vanilla oil? The epaulet for things and it was just like this bomb of vanilla flavor when you mix it into oil and I was curious why vehicle was extra virgin olive oil as opposed to like just like a more neutral like grapeseed or um, Or sunflower oil or something like that.

[00:32:15] Josh Sharkey: 

Is it just because it's just more like diverse to be able to use in salad dressings and things like that or?

[00:32:20] Jimmy Kunz: 

Yeah, I think truffle is better for finishing product, and I think you're going to command a higher price point for extra virgin olive oil too, or higher end olive oil. You don't necessarily want to heat truffle oil either, then some of that flavor goes away.

[00:32:39] 

Also, fat and truffle work so well, like the butter, I mean, that's really kind of an old school way to preserve fresh truffles, but my favorite products are the ones that are all the perishable items that are like high in fat, the butter, the salami, we do also going back to balance, we have kind of a spectrum Within Truffleist and just the truffle market in general of are we subtle, medium or intense and we kind of have a range with that.

[00:33:11] 

So our oil, I think, is very well balanced. It definitely hits you are salami is like delicate little truffle and then you're just like, I'm eating salami in less of a lingering way. So I think we have a nice within our brand and just within truffle products in general. Intentionally level is like a thing that that you see, but that’s interesting.

[00:33:35] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, so you have these markets and You're selling obviously like the products, but you're also somewhat randomly It's on cheesesteaks, which by the way, I'm obsessed with cheesesteaks and my wife always like thinks I'm psychotic because at the end of a night, if it's like a weekend because we don't do some weekdays, I'm like, I want a cheesesteak at like 11 o'clock at night.

[00:33:56] 

I could eat a cheesesteak literally every night. A cheesesteak. How did you come up with selling cheesesteaks? And was that to sort of like bridge the gap of the things that you could sell? Outside of just, you know, bottled products or jarred products?

[00:34:07] Jimmy Kunz:

Yeah, I mean, you start doing Smorgasburg and you see you're not selling too many jars and there's a line, you know, for a great burger or poutine, but it's kind of a two parter there.

[00:34:22] 

Holiday markets. Always big shout out to urban space. Uh, we would not be where we're at. The holiday markets have always been a big part of the success with the products. And then starting out, you know, I was in Astoria, I was the super for about six years as a department, we had a luxury of like an, you know, big apartment and grinding and, you know, just.

[00:34:46] 

Really difficult. No, no money to go out. Just like being very in it. And I would host a lot of dinner parties because it was like, you guys bring stuff, I'll cook, you know, let's just have a great time. No one needs to spend crazy money going out to a restaurant. We're just going to jive and I'm going to cook something easy and we're, we're going to have a blast.

[00:35:09] 

And one of those nights was cheesesteaks and my favorite dish that mom makes. And one of my favorite dishes anyways, lasagna, and it ties into cheesesteaks. I'll get to it. She got taught by her Italian teacher to make this amazing lasagna with bechamel in it, which is a certain part of Italy. I don't know which part, but anyway.

[00:35:34] 

Probably the South, and I just love mom's lasagna so sick, and I made these cheesesteaks with the homemade bechamel with a nice kind of rustic baguette, and I always love cheesesteaks. One of my buddy and I, we always have a mission, whether it's a street cart guy, whether it's a storefront, whether it's shorties, doesn't matter.

[00:35:56] 

Like we just went on this mission in New York City. Where is the best cheesesteak and like, where can we get one, whether we're craving it in bed at 11 or it's like 11 a.m. on a Saturday. So there's always been this thing, New York City, sandwiches, cheesesteaks, it's just like a great bite, even when it's not great.

[00:36:16] 

So made the bechamel and made everyone these cheesesteaks and people were like, this is good. And I was like, well, good. I'm glad you guys are happy. And then their next thing was where's the truffle, honey? Where's the truffle oil? Where's the truffle hot sauce? And that's kind of how it started. And then we ended up doing it at Smorgasburg.

[00:36:36] 

We ended up doing it at Holiday Markets and we started that in 2014. We brought it out to Los Angeles, Smorg. Did that for one season and, uh, we were at Bryant Park Winter Village this year and, uh,

[00:36:50] Josh Sharkey: 

Cheesesteaks and tiramisu for me are like two things that like, it doesn't matter how good or bad it is. I'm gonna eat it and I'm gonna like it.

[00:36:57] 

But when it's really good, you're like, holy shit, like, I've had like, incredible tiramisu in Bologna, Italy, and like, knocked my socks off, like, holy shit, this is amazing. And I've had tiramisu from like the random pizza joint that like, I don't even know where it comes from, probably frozen somewhere else, and I'm like, This is terrible, but it's great.

[00:37:13] 

Cheesesteaks are kind of the same thing. But when you get a good one, you're like, fuck, man, I gotta get that again. Yeah. 

[00:37:18] Jimmy Kunz: 

So we obviously whole different beast package goods. But the cheesesteak concept is to really expose kind of to the country that you can put truffle on anything, whether it's your leftover slice of pepperoni pizza that you're heating, and that was the point behind it.

[00:37:39] 

And then there's obviously a lot of pride in that food concept because we want everyone to be like, oh, hey, Truffleist. You know, have a great experience at the cheesesteak booth and then hopefully convert them. 

[00:37:54] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh yeah, that's really smart, man.

[00:37:56] Jimmy Kunz: 

To a Truffleist customer, but everything from the bread from Caputo Bakery, which is in the neighborhood I grew up in, Cobble Hill, to Romeo Brothers Butcher, that does our steak, which is amazing, that comes in daily.

[00:38:10] 

So. For us, it's about you showing up with your family, mom, my nephew, Julie, come in and being very proud of the sandwich that we're serving where, yeah, there's high food cost and all the stuff is, you know, it's not steak is a frozen puck and the bechamel is homemade. And it has a truffle twist, and I think we got really lucky by default, because of course the majority of the demographic are tourists at these markets, so no learning curve, because most people in America know what a cheesesteak is, and then there's this cool truffle twist, and sure it's food porny, and it's got that whole cool thing, and it's a hot mess, and it's cold, and it's good winter food, But then, it's actually a very solid bite.

[00:39:02]

So I think we found our sweet spot. We have lots to improve there, but I'm, I'm super happy how that brand has progressed. And we put a lot of work into that, too. 

[00:39:13] Josh Sharkey: 

That's so smart, man, to, you know, when, with all these CPG products. The tough thing, we were just talking about this yesterday, actually, because, you know, you kind of need, you know, people that buy a jar of this thing or a bottle of this thing, they kind of need to, you know, what am I going to do with it?

[00:39:29] 

You know, like, a lot of times it's a recipe, like, what's a recipe I can use with this thing? That's how they kind of like the pathway of how they're going to buy that thing. And it's so smart using this cheesesteak, using like food you know, prepared food. If you're trying to, like, increase the size of your category of the CPG thing that you have, the product you have, because you give people a reason to use it somewhere else.

[00:39:51] 

Because that person that may have thought about buying truffle oil, and they're like, yeah, but you know, I'm not sure exactly what to use it for, I guess I could use it for a salad. Then they eat it on a fucking cheesesteak, I'm like, I'm gonna put this on all my sandwiches now. Such a smart way to like, sell your product.

[00:40:07] Jimmy Kunz: 

Yeah think it's I don't know why more people don't do that. When we saw a trend this, this holiday, which was very nice, where um, my friend Cassandra, who does an amazing Curry paste and hot sauce, Malaysian condiments, CPG brand, Mama Lam's. Oh yeah, that stuff's great. So she got written up for her Laksa, and then there's Hell's Kitchen hot sauce who did like a paella burrito.

[00:40:31] 

So I like how the organizers are thinking that. Like letting some veteran CPG brands then come into the more, you know, ready to eat food and kind of highlight their core business. And I think when you look at CPG brands of branding or how they operate in certain things when they get into the food space.

[00:40:54] 

You know, they're building a brand. This is not just a food kiosk. Let's crank out X. They're looking at it in a more methodical kind of way of like, so that was exciting to see. But yeah, it just, it was just lucky, honestly, Josh. And we just You know, we want to do something and develop, but for now it's just seasonal.

[00:41:18] 

We have some other things that we want to do. We added the fries only booth that Union Square this year, which turns out just fries and nuggets and mozzarella.

[00:41:28] Josh Sharkey: 

You know, I've had to fly a lot lately and see travel products pretty often. They're in the airports. How did that happen? 

[00:41:37] Jimmy Kunz: 

Airports is a good one.I did prep for this a bit. So I had to think long and hard about how we actually landed in the airports. Then we got lucky with that one as well, where it was either from a trade show lead. I think we just actually got one from Hudson. They also have done a good job in New York city to like highlight local.

[00:42:01] 

Local companies, so I think that was a converted fancy food trade show lead that that ended up progressing or we've been with Taste New York, which is a great, you know, government store on the Taconic or certain they have some in the airport. So I think it was a progression of sometimes it's like doing something long enough or.

[00:42:23] 

A potential client sees your stuff at, for example, Taste New York and is like, well, I do the purchasing for Hudson News at the airports and I met them and they had a good vibe at a trade show, it sometimes progresses and takes time, but that's good. 

[00:42:40] Josh Sharkey: 

Well, for everybody listening, if you are flying somewhere. I need to get a gift, or coming back home to New York, I need to get a gift. Pro productive opportunity here with Truffleist. Alright, so I wanna, if it's okay with you, I wanna sort of like circle back to, to the impact that your dad had. You know, you talked about like, you know, obviously the obsession with cleanliness and, and, and focus and perfection.

[00:43:02] 

I was at this like, mastermind, like, CEO conference a while back, and we were trying to derive, like, what's our biggest value, or, you know, values that we have, and it's funny, something came to mind where I immediately thought of your dad, because the way in which to sort of get to what is your, what are your core values, personally, is what are the things that make you the most angry?

[00:43:25] 

You know, that was the question, I was like, what makes you angry? What makes you really angry? And I answered the question with all these things, and The output of it, anyway, I won't sort of bore you with the story, but was that the core value is excellence. And it's like, the first thing I think of when I think of Chef Kunz is not perfection, or hard work, or sternness, all those things are true, but like, this pursuit of excellence.

[00:43:47] 

And excellence and perfection are sort of different, you know, in that perfection is kind of, it's a little bit more Like tactile, whereas excellence is this, it becomes more of a pursuit and it's something about like everything that he did, you know, you could never just be, you know, as is he had to like create some, like it was taken to a level of excellence that it just, you know, very Chef Kunz.

[00:44:13] 

And I have to imagine a lot of that carried on to things that you do. And I'd love to just get a sense. What are the things that, are the things that in your life, or In your work or in like the relationships you have or the business you have where that, where you think of things like that, that your dad instilled in you or that you experienced that like just have now become part of who you are?

[00:44:41] Jimmy Kunz: 

Yeah, absolutely. We can always do better. But how do we do it together? And this goes into a layered thing about leadership and realistic expectations. But as a son, I can say the guy was a perfectionist, but I think he was also just a fantastic human. But I do say this at work with the grain of nice salt is shoot for perfection and achieve excellence.

[00:45:13] 

And no one's perfect, but shoot for the stars. And we're going to, we're going to have to improve or we're going to achieve excellence and excellence is a continuing work to excellence, but if you shoot for excellence, you're probably just going to get good by human nature. So I think there is that work ethic that we can always do better, but in in a positive way, you know, we did it.

[00:45:46] 

But how can we even do better? And I think that definitely was passed on to dad. 

[00:45:54] Josh Sharkey: 

I'm going to now sort of tie this into this really, really badass thing that you just brought that I want to show here, if you're cool with it. Yeah, absolutely. Because this is, for anybody that, okay, so anybody that knows Chef Kunz, you know, before Cafe Gray, he was the chef of Lespinasse in New York, four stars New York Times, changed the game, you know, he's just really, the impact he's had for chefs everywhere is incredible.

[00:46:18] Josh Sharkey: 

And Jimmy, you brought I mean, this is insane. You brought all of the recipes in the entire Lespinasse Menu Repertoire Volume 1 and 2 in these pretty pristine books here that we're going to digitize in meez. But first of all, thank you for bringing this because this is just, I mean, one, it brings back so many memories and just looking at like cassoulet of curried turnips with Pea Sprout salad.

[00:46:45] Josh Sharkey: 

I see Kokum here. I mean, who was using Kokum 20 years ago? Blizzard, I mean. 

[00:46:51] Jimmy Kunz: 

Yeah, you know, the trend with pea shoots are everywhere.

[00:46:53] Josh Sharkey: 

Yeah, I mean, this is, this had to have been, you know, 25 plus years ago. But Northern Pike, I remember, I mean, we would fly in Pike from the Great Lakes, Walleye. Oh, he's just like naming types of, I mean, so this was the book that every cook got? Is that?

[00:47:11] Jimmy Kunz: 

Assume. We gotta hit up. Chef Mike Citarella and ask, but I know that. Oh, look at that.

[00:47:17] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh, Poussin with truffle sauce. Let's see. Bingo. Butter, shallots, truffle, white pork, chicken stock, cream, but yeah, this is This is so cool, man. Steamed artichokes you were just talking about.

[00:47:31] Jimmy Kunz: 

So yeah, this was in the house upstate. And I was putting the storage and I was like, man, this is a lot of work to get digital ties and it's old school. Sambal for veal.

[00:47:44] Josh Sharkey: 

You know, they're making sambal here for veal. I mean, this was, I can't, this is like, it could have been three days ago. I don't remember when that's when I was close, but onions, garlic, Thai chilies, galangal powder, tamarind paste, curry leaves.

[00:47:56]  

Tangerine peel. Tangerine peel, liver spice mix. Coconut milk. I mean, you know, this, this just didn't exist. People were not making this unless you were maybe at a, you know, Malaysian restaurant. But like,

[00:48:08] Jimmy Kunz: 

You definitely left something out here. 

[00:48:10] Josh Sharkey: 

Oh yeah. Yeah. There's more than peppercorns, cloves and star anise. So it's in chapters. And it looks like each chapter is just, maybe, there's four chapters, I'm gonna guess it's like each season. Menu number two, foie gras, seared foie gras, pineapple confit, cracked black pepper, and pea puree. This is insane. I'm so, like, excited to just dig into this thing. That's 1994. Oh yeah, so this is winter of 1994.

[00:48:36] 

So what is that? Oh four, fourteen, twenty four. Yeah, thirty years, Jesus, thirty years ago. Thirty years ago doing this. I mean, it's just insane. Look at the prices. I mean, it's not cheap. Thirty three dollars for grilled striped bass. Little pepper reduction. Good for him. All the, look at this, all the, like, different types of fish.

[00:48:56] 

This is such a cool thing to give to your cooks. You know? Bruget, turbo, bass, a lot of explaining each one and how they cook it. I saw one page that was just like explaining all the types of wild mushrooms that they use. This is just insane. 

[00:49:10] Jimmy Kunz: 

Thanks for helping me out with this. I think, um, everybody should be able to access and everything being digital in today's world, it will be so helpful.

[00:49:22] 

So I thought of you immediately when I found these in storage and I brought them. 

[00:49:28] Josh Sharkey: 

We're going to, we're going to, we're going to get them transformed into really. Dope interactive recipes and content in meez and then you know, I'll pass it over to you to do what we want with it But you know, we can get everybody involved, but there's just so much gold in here.

[00:49:44] 

This is so cool So thank you for bringing this and 

[00:49:47] Jimmy Kunz: 

Thanks for your help with it. I know the Um, the whole gang, I don't know, the, the amazing chefs that I was exposed to growing up, you being one of them, Larry Finn, Matt Deliso, Jean Rel, the list goes on where, and I was speaking about this recently, where I'm so lucky, obviously, to have been eating amazing food growing up and being exposed to great flavors and having a rock star dad as a chef, but to see You guys, where you guys are all at, rock stars, and to have you guys all as friends has something, obviously, with losing dad and just in general, that it's an amazing thing.

[00:50:37] 

I have this whole other friend group of all these rock star chefs that have worked with my dad on just like a, on a great friend level, and so. The reason why I bring it up is because we sent, you know, the picture to the group text message thread and everyone's excited. So whether you're a chef by career, at home chef, to be able to access this for anyone, I think is huge.

[00:51:04] 

And, you know, there's ways of things trending and it's always cool to look back at old recipes and slide into what's popular now and get inspired. So I'm, I'm pumped that this will just be. With your help is just so, so grateful that anyone will have access to these old school kind of, kind of recipes.

[00:51:26] Josh Sharkey: 

And I mean, honestly, they're not even old school. Thirty years later, they're still, you know, it's still relevant and insane. So yeah, we're gonna make it, we'll make it searchable. We'll make it all that stuff. Well, I'm grateful for you, man. And also just so proud to see what you've built and what you've done.

[00:51:42] 

And, you know, you could have gone a lot of different paths and you've built something incredible. And you've also just, you know, become such a, yeah, not just a good friend, but just a really like incredible professional. So thanks, man, for coming here. 

[00:51:57] Jimmy Kunz: 

Just nice to jive and hang with you. And honored to, you know, be here chatting with you about dad, about Truffleist, about the whole. Industry family behind dad and, uh, really just honored. I mean, just guys selling some trouble products and love good food. And, and, uh, it's really, truly a pleasure and I love what you're doing on this, this platform. Recipes like this. Yes, there's amazing relevant things in this Bible, but the way it's formatted, you know, it's important and what you're doing is cool 

[00:52:37] Josh Sharkey: 

Well, I think this is a bit of a tangent, but the idea of analog paper cookbooks to me. It's kind of insane. I mean, if there's a place for them as a chef, you sort of, you know, there, there's a, there's something to creating a, a cookbook that can sit on a coffee table. But I have hundreds and hundreds of books at home. And the idea that I have to go search and find this the page, and then I'm gonna make one, like a smaller batch of it, and I gotta convert everything.

[00:53:02] 

And how do I find the one thing out of all this is just, there's just a, a better way. So I'm stoked to, to, to give that to everybody and I'm, I'm super stoked to do that with this so. Anyways, it was awesome, man. It was awesome having you on. I can't wait to eat a cheesesteak, by the way. 

[00:53:18] Jimmy Kunz: 

We just wrapped the season and we were right here, but next year and we got some plans in the future to maybe do something a little bit more permanent with cheesesteaks.

[00:53:26] 

But, um. Anything else you want to share? Yeah, order that extra round of oysters and enjoy. Try to miss less of the moments and make the most out of the moments you have. Whether it's with friends, family, or your work family, and, and I'm so lucky to have such a great supportive group. Most of our team, the core Truffleist team, is just one big family, actually.

[00:53:56] 

And then, of course, the network of the food industry friends, and then childhood friends. I would just say, just enjoy life and eat good bites with the people you love.

[00:54:08] Josh Sharkey: 

Love it. Yeah. It's a great place to end. All right, man. Thank you, brother. Yep.

[00:54:15] Josh Sharkey: 

Thanks for tuning into The meez Podcast. The music from the show is a remix of the song Art Mirror by an old friend, hip hop artist Fresh Daily. For show notes and more, visit getmeez.com/podcast. That's G E T M E E Z dot com forward slash podcast. If you enjoyed the show, I'd love it if you can share it with fellow entrepreneurs and culinary pros, and give us a five star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:54:38] Josh Sharkey: 

Keep innovating, don't settle, make today a little bit better than yesterday, and remember, it's impossible for us to learn what we think we already know. See you next time.